Venting a bit here. But one of the problems with NB is the commission structure. Even worse, it’s not completely upfront. The practitioner say ”Make sure you use my number so you get a discount” What they really mean is ”Make sure you use my number so I get my commission” Often practitioners get angry when people by cheaper supplements somewhere else. I know of one guy that was dropped by his practitioner because he wasn’t buying Taurine from EndoMet, even though he was buying everything else. I would much rather pay them for their time, rather than give them commissio ...
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Yes. Very common. Magnesium lowers sodium, which is already low in adrenal fatigue, so your adrenals have to work harder to try to get sodium back up. Although I haven’t seen people report it with just oral magnesium, since bowel tolerance limits overdoing it. It happens a lot with Epsom salt baths or magnesium oil that you apply on your skin, which are not limited by bowel tolerance   [End]
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Hi, This is a timely question. I was a regular on the adrenal fatigue forum for about 10-years. I still have not completely recovered, but much better. There was a time when I couldn’t take even one kelp or I felt horrible. Dr Rind and others indicate that you have to treat the adrenals first. He says the the adrenal can’t ”handle the energy” of thyroid support. To be honest, that explanation never made sense to me. One reason that you might need to treat the adrenals first is that you need adrenal energy to remove toxins. I did the Nutritional Balancing program for ...
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Do you look at p 0 r n often? Do you have a history of p 0 r n use? If you do, that can be a big part of it. p 0 r n gives a massive hit of dopamine ... and like any other drug, your receptors become less sensitive over time. Head on over to nofap.com Also, there is an overlap with addictions and adrenal fatigue, and for a variety of reasons. You are low on energy, so you look for things that will give you a boost, such as p 0 r n. Plus ... being stuck in a state of stress makes it harder to control impulses. The fight or flight response makes you more impulsive, and fo ...
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Google "Seriphos Order"...... it's still available   [End]
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Here you go. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8894790 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1338597 http://www.acu-cell.com/mr.html And there have been discussions here over the years of people becoming exhausted after epsom salts or excessive magnesium supplements   [End]
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c.b. showed amazing patience. He tried about 50 times to get you to just admit oooone little bit that your opinion may be wrong. But he eventually gave and went away. Seriously? .... Fectoid is the first person you remember arguing with? No, it was about your 6th post on CZ 3 years ago that you offended someone and apologized for your response. And....you were arguing with the entire adrenal fatigue forum, which is why you were banned twice. (I know... I know ... it was their fault for starting all the arguments). You were banned because your driving everyone away from ...
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Let’s say I come home after a bar fight with a black eye and bruised knuckles.   After the first time, I might be able to say “That other guy bumped into me and then shoved me ….so he started the fight” But if every time I go to a bar, I get into a fight …. eventually it should dawn on me that the fights are likely my fault.  Why do I keep getting in fights?   Am I doing something that keeps setting people off? But you write this: “ But the only reason I end up arguing with people, is they star ...
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Everyone gets in an argument once in a while. But they also get along most of the time. Your interactions always seem to end poorly. You are the common denominator. There is a reason you were banned..... twice. And it is not because of the behaviour of others. Do yourself a favour and ponder why you were banned.   [End]
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wow. that is a nice link. thank you. The dots will eventually be connected.   [End]
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Did you ever stop to wonder why you end up arguing with every single person. For most people, that would trigger some self examination. And do you realize how unhealthy that is for you. You are constantly in fight or flight .... stress hormones surging through your body. You might want to read the book ”Deadly Emotions”. You are arguing your way straight towards a heart attack.   [End]
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Blurred Vision & tingling extremities are two symptoms that can be caused by either... hyperventilation.... or hypoglycemia. There....I have just proved that hypoglycemia does not exist. Or... did I prove that these two different root causes can result in neuropathy, which is actually what is causing these two symptoms. sorry... but you have not ”proved” anything.   [End]
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”In true dialogue, both sides are willing to change.” by ”Thich Nhat Hanh” Natway. ... a few of us have accepted the idea that low caloric intake can be a stressor. It is good info on another possible stressor to be aware of. It may even be the reason the symptoms line up with other sources of chronic stress. But you are unwilling to reciprocate and listen to anything that anyone else has to say. There are a lot of smart people here who have spent years researching chronic stress. We all have a lot to learn. But the only way you can learn new information is to open you ...
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Sounds like it was the first Saliva test she saw ..... but called it normal? It really sounds more like she didn’t know what the hell to do about it.   [End]
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Been busy working the last few days... slow to respond. Tell you what ... let's not call it a debate, because that just invites arguments.  Let's call it an exchange of ideas. You pointed out a few articles that indicate chronic low caloric intake can lead to the General Adaptation Syndrome. This would indicate that chronic hunger is a stressor.    I think makes sense, since it raises cortisol and epinephrine in order to increase blood sugar. Like any other stressor, it makes sense to me that chronic hunger would cause one to progress al ...
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Tell you what.   Let's forget about the adrenal glands for a minute.  Let's just talk about the General Adaptation Syndrome. It shows that exposure to chronic stress eventually leads to what is called Stage 3 - Exhaustion. This is what Selyes proved over and over.  Chronic Stress leads to progression through GAS, ending in exhuastion It was proved by years of experiments.   Chronic Stress == >Eventual Exhaustion Can you accept this?  i.e. do you agree with this information that is still in medical text books? ...
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" What did he say happens to them during stage 3?" Ok.  First....Let's sum up what he observed in Stage 2.  And I mean observed.  It is not just a theory.  He and his team did many experiements over several years. He exposed rats to lots of different stressors (excessive exercise, cold, heat, lots of different toxins).   I don't think he tried low calories, but low calories is a stressor, so I suppose it would to the same.   Stage 1 is the initial shock to the stressor.  It is short in duration, but there is initia ...
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Natway, You still didn't address the fact that many people feel immediately better taking actual adrenal hormones. If many people on the forum need replacement adrenal hormones to function, that is a fairly strong indication the adrenal glands are weak and need some help. Can you please address that.    [End]
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That is possibly true. It could possibly be secondary. But my main point to Natway is that adrenal hormone production drops and people feel better by taking replacement hormones. The adrenals are affected by chronic stress, whether it is primary or secondary, Dr Selye actually noted that the adrenal glands grow during stage 2 GAS. People are actually HYPER-adrenal for many years, until they crash. I felt super human from the early 20s until about 36. I could handle any amount of stress. But the other hint is that it could be primary is that Vitamin C is helpful for many ...
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you didn’t address the fact that many people feel immediately better taking actual adrenal hormones. if many people on the forum need replacement adrenal hormones to function, that is a fairly strong indication the adrenal glands are weak and need some help. Can you please address that. And there are real MDs that reccommend these hormones after one is exposed to years of chronic stress. Dr Rind, Dr Mariano, and many many more.   [End]
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maybe the adrenals are like the pancreas ..... which gets tired of having to produce high levels of insulin   [End]
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If you look around the forum, there are many people that feel better by taking some external adrenal hormones. I took progesterone for 7 years and it was a big help, mostly for anxiety. I don’t take it anymore. Lots of people take a low dose of hydrocortisone just to function. Marie64 needed to take HC to function for several years. Same for Faith, she just had a crash and had to take external HC recently, and noticed an improvement. Laredo leads an active life now, but still takes pregnenolone. if lots of people feel better by taking replacement adrenal hormones.... it seems ...
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Our egos don’t like it when beliefs we have worked hard to construct are attacked. We are all guilty of this. Not always proud of my behaviour .... trying to improve :)   [End]
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I am not downplaying it all. I said it was a stressor. But you are kind of overplaying it. It is the only stressor you ever mention. There are all kinds of stressors. Environmental (toxins, emf) Physical (excessive exercise, pain) Infection. Emotional. Inherited stress (such as prenatal cortisol exposure, epigenetic gene activation). I don’t really know why most doctors have not made the connection. If it is bad enough, people get a diagnosis of Addison’s or adrenal insufficiency. but it seems like people can still feel super bad....even though they are above the thresh ...
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Ok...fine the first two stages can be skipped. Some people might have low adrenal function all their lives. That really doesn’t change the fact that many others can and do go through the 3 stages. The AF forum is full of former high energy people. They often went through periods of being able to handle more stress than normal. (adaptation...or Stage 2). then.... all of a sudden, they can handle less stress than normal. it is a very common pattern amongst the forum members. It is so common to see newbies show up and say ” I worked out every day for years and now I have no ...
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sure. under eating is a stressor. But it is not the only stressor that is listed in your reference. Look into the work of Hans Selye. Any stressor will cause it.   [End]
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I was still hoping you don’t respond to anonymous. :) So Dr Lam tweaked the stages for his own marketing purposes. But it is based on science. Dr Selye, and his many years of experiments is the reason that GAS is still in text medical texts today. The fact the James Wilson, and then Lam wanted to corner the market on this is does not negate the fundamental science behind GAS. Enough stress, for long enough, causes one to go through the stages. Natway.... clearly you are a smart guy. So go buy yourself a medical text book and research the work of Hans Selye and GAS. I ...
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and GAS is still in modern medical text books. Go buy one and see.   [End]
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Let’s compare references. Journal of Neuropsychiatry....or. T-nation. Dr Selye tested the results of stress over and over. Regardless of the stressor, the stages were the same. The fact the some have low adrenal function their whole life has no impact on the fact that anyone who experiences enough stress will go through the stages. And the fact that Dr Lam put his own spin on it for marketing reasons doesn’t matter either. It does not negate that chronic stress causes one to go through these stage to eventual exhaustion.   [End]
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Interesting.  He doesn't mention Dr Hans Selye, his work, or the General Adaptation Syndrome? It's almost like he doesn't even know about GAS.   Here is an article published in the Journal of Neuropsychiatry describing the work of Dr Hans Selye, and the general adaptation syndrome.   [End]
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Thanks for stopping by and giving an update. Glad to hear it is working for you   [End]
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Well. That sucks. Sorry to hear of what you are going through. Are the pains in your side in your adrenal area. Sometimes people get either a sharp pain or a dull ache in this area. I don’t have any good advice for you. I hope you are able to figure this out and things settle down for you. Good luck   [End]
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Well. I am not always proud of myself when I act immature or let my ego get the best of me. Hence the anonymous. You, on the other hand, are not self aware enough to realize how large your ego is. You are not here to help people. You are here to feed your ego and satisfy it’s need to be ”right” about everything. Trying to take credit for Faith improving is a sign of a massive ego. Your ego is why you always feel the need to get the last word in. Although you say you don’t respond to anonymous posts, I am pretty sure your ego will force you to respond.   [End]
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can you describe a time that you were wrong. Ever?   [End]
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I am surprised a PCP would even look at saliva test. Most doctors or endocrinologists don’t even know about the test. It would take a rare doctor to give you a diagnosis of adrenal insufficiency using saliva tests. Maybe someone like Dr Rind. Although it is becoming more common. But yes, if you are below the reference range, that normally means you are lower than 90% of the population. Do you have the following symptoms: 1. Do you have an afternoon energy crash. 2. Do you get a boost in energy late in the evening, near bed time. 3. Does your mind race in bed. 4. Are you ...
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i think it is mostly because of the Lipo C, which prevents your body from limiting vitamin C via bowel tolerance. Lipo C does not let your body reject excess intake.   [End]
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Thyroid symptoms almost always come along with adrenal fatigue.   Your body seems to down regulate the thyroid since it can't handle the energy. Start with a 4 point saliva test (http://www.canaryclub.org/) is the cheapest place to order one.  Look for cortisol irregularities.  Depending on your country, you may need a naturopathic doctor to help you order the saliva test. You should not try to treat the thyroid first.  Several people here have made their adrenal fatigue worse by trying that.   Do your mind race all the time? ...
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inflammation comes along with adrenal fatigue. I had this for years. Showed up shortly after I crashed. It doesnt need to be an infection.   [End]
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This is from Acu-Cell.  He does Cell Analysis to test for minerals.  Not hair analysis.  He observed the same thing that Wilson is worried about.    "the effect of a regular, daily overdose of Vitamin C is not an acute event as experienced with a deadly, toxic substance, but a gradual change in mineral ratios , or the progressive lowering of other essential elements, which over time can result in the development of moderate to serious medical problems " http://www.acu-cell.com/vitc.html Vitamin C is too good at removing meta ...
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" Recent studies fail to show a link between saturated fat intake and risk of cardiovascular disease, with saturated fat actually found to be protective" "Another US study showed a ‘low fat’ diet was worse for health than one which was low in carbohydrates, such as potatoes, pasta, bread." " Some western nations, such as Sweden, are now adopting dietary guidelines that encourage foods high in fat but low in carbs." Read more:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2472672/Is-high-fat-diet-GOOD-heart-Doctors-say-car ...
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is 15% a high number? How about 6-7% for slow oxidizer? I am not good at math..... but it seems like it might be low fat maybe its the new math   [End]
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ummm. L Wilson pushes high carb... low fat   [End]
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This is a bit like telling someone who is thinking of going to Loan Shark that they should probably try to get a loan from their bank first. They would have obviously tried many banks before resorting to the loan shark. Likewise, do you really think Curezone is the 1st place people go when they become ill?   No, people end up here after years of exhausting all other options.   And you KNOW that.  That why this is troll like behavior.   It appears that you are here to instigate, not to help or be helped.  Especially consid ...
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Not the best infomercial I’ve come across   [End]
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  I don’t want to contribute to you having a heart attack even sooner.    So I’ll let you get the last word in, which is 100% guaranteed to come after this post.  But you may want to actually read this 36 year study completed by John Hopkins School of Medicine.  Could save your life. http://my.clevelandclinic.org/heart/prevention/stress/anger.aspx " The study, which tracked 1,337 male medical students for 36 years following medical school, found that students who became angry quickly under stress were  three times mor ...
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 Sure... if your goal is death from an early heart attack, anger works perfectly. http://my.clevelandclinic.org/heart/prevention/stress/anger.aspx " The study, which tracked 1,337 male medical students for 36 years following medical school, found that students who became angry quickly under stress were three times more likely to develop premature heart disease and five times more likely to have an early heart attack. Angry young men, it appears, turn into angry old men with heart problems"     [End]
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  It`s been a while since I went to Sunday school.  Perhaps they have modified the New Testament to put more emphasis on how Jesus encouraged anger?   I just don’t remember that being one of his core teachings? If he did encourage anger, he probably would have died of heart attack eventually anyway. http://www.nbcnews.com/health/anger-may-raise-heart-attack-risk-study-finds-1C9921429 Anger may raise heart attack risk, study finds     [End]
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 It was a very informative post.  And there is a lot of good information.   Just needs to be presented in a "more calm" manner.     Maybe a different font or subdued color to differentiate his/her comments from the original post.   All caps comes off as shouting.     http://kathrynvercillo.hubpages.com/hub/What-People-Think-When-You-Type-in-All-Caps   http://www.hoax-slayer.com/do-not-use-all-capitals.html   And it is very hard to read and actually pick out words.  It becomes just a wall ...
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Holy smokes. Chill out on the all caps. Seriously...that post may have some good information in it, but it is unreadable due to the all caps screaming. It is like watching CNN when they try to stress you out so you’ll keep watching. Tone is down a little if you actually want to help people ... especially people that may already be stuck in fight or flight   [End]
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Guys... Let’s just leave him alone....don’t give him any attention. It looks like he may be banned from the support forums....finally. He only seems to be posting in the debate forums, where he belongs We can now go back to the supportive group that we used to have. Less arguments...more help and compassion.   [End]
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  Umm...you most certainly are a liar.  You told the moderator you needed full access to the adrenal fatigue forum since “that is the health matter I’m still dealing with”  when you continue to post that it doesn’t exist. 3/25/2013 “ Interestingly, AF is not accepted as a valid medical diagnosis by conventional medicine” http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=2049003#i 6/15/2013 " Please allow me full access to the AF section which is the health matter I’m still dealing with." http://curezone.co ...
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How do you get 4000+ calories on a plant based diet? That is 500 cups of lettuce per day ! Do you graze non-stop like a cow?   [End]
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 Guys, you may want to voice your opinion on the following thread asking to get Natway barred from the adrenal fatigue and Nutritional Balancing for Adrenal Fatigue forum http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=2083208#i Maybe if they see how he is sucking the life and positive / supportive atmosphere out of the forum, they will consider banning him from these forums.   [End]
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Dear Webmaster  Here is another long time poster frustrated with Natway. http://curezone.com/forums/p.asp?f=628&i=2084196 Natway keeps telling people on the adrenal fatigue support forum that Adrenal Fatigue doesn’t exist....and that our problem is only "toxic hunger" He has multiple arguements going on at the same time.   He is driving people away from the forum.  It is just not worth it to stick around Curezone with this guy spamming our forum and telling us our condition does not exist. We will just go elsewhere for support.  There are s ...
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Hi, I know Natway was temporarily banned from the adrenal fatigue forum.  But he is back, and causing a lot of anxiety for people that are actually trying to help each other. First of all, here he is saying it is a made up condition. http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=2078309#i Yet here he is asking the Webmaster for full access to the Adrenal Fatigue Section. " Please allow me full access to the AF section which is the health matter I’m still dealing with." http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=2074809#i So he says he has it, so he can ...
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  So which time are you lying, when you say " Please allow me full access to the AF section which is the health matter I’m still dealing with." http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=2074809#i .....or when you say. "Well adrenal fatigue is kind of a made-up condition by alternative medicine." http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=2078309#i     [End]
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 That’s kind of funny....because here you are asking the moderators to give you access to the AF forum since "   Please allow me full access to the AF section which is the health matter I’m still dealing with." http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=2074809#i Stop trolling this forum !!            [End]
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Not only are you a troll...you are a liar. Here you are saying that Adrenal Fatigue is a made up condition.   And you are trying to say you still suffer from it?   Bulls**t  http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=2078309#i It is called the General Adaptation Syndrome....Dr James Wilson re-branded it as adrenal fatigue.   But it is essentially the general adaptation syndrome, based on the work of Dr Hans Selye. Dr Webmaster......how can you trust a guy who says he has a condition that he is on record saying it doesn’t exist? No one wants him on the Adrenal F ...
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Dr Lam Do people with adrenal fatigue usually have high cholesterol? Would this be because their adrenal glands are not able to use available cholesterol to produce the hormones ”downstream” of the cholesterol.....so it accumulates in the body?   [End]
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Hi Dr Lam I just went through a stressful period. My energy was pretty good through the stressful period. However, now that it is over, I am sleeping 12 hrs every night. Is it common to have a bit of a ”Let Down” after a period of stress. It seems like my adrenals were doing their best to keep up with the stress and now that it is over my adrenals are ramping down to rest. Does that make sense? Thanks   [End]
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According to Dr Lam, Licorice is more stimulating in late stage adrenal fatigue.   He pretty much only treats advanced cases of adrenal fatigue.  It is his specialty. http://www.drlam.com/articles/Adrenal_Fatigue_Glandular_and_Herbal_Therapy.asp?print=yes&page=1 "Side effects of licorice include headache, hypertension, lethargy, upset stomach, diarrhea, facial puffiness, edema, incrased fatigue, anxiety, irritability, and grogginess. It may potentiate the effct of wafarin and digoxin therapy. These side effects are more prominant in those with advance a ...
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Hi Dr Lam I often have lite beige bowel movements, which I believe indicates my liver is not clearing toxins very well. Conversely, on days that I have dark bowel movements, does that mean I am clearing toxins well? Also, what you think of Epsom salt baths as a means of gentle detox? Are they OK for someone with adrenal fatigue? Thanks again for your help   [End]
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Hi Dr Lam Sometimes I wonder if I am doing Adrenal Restorative breathing correctly. Sometimes it almost seems to increase anxiety, so I must be doing it wrong. I was thinking of getting one of these galvanic bio feedback devices to help train me to make sure I am activating the parasympathetic nervous system...and not the sympathetic http://www.lifematters.com/gsrtemp.asp What do you think? Would it be worthwhile?   [End]
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Hi Dr Lam, Is it possible that if your nervous system is still sympathetic dominant, that taking LipoNano C could simply give more fuel to the fire? In an analog....let’s say my nervous system is like a car with the gas pedal to the floor (sympathetic mode). Giving my adrenal system all that fuel (LipoNano C), is there a chance it just wears out the car even faster? Thanks for your help.   [End]
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